Basis of Conflict/Conciliation
Modern science is being limited to the study of the material energies alone, not the spiritual. So modern science not developed any instrument nor anybody of knowledge on spiritual subject matter.

When it comes to explaining phenomenon which might have a higher spiritual cause, like the origin of life, the species, nature and planetary systems, modern science runs into a brick wall.
It is forced to formulate reductionistic theories to explain the unknown within its own limited material parameters, since it is deemed “unscientific” to acknowledge the spiritual force of a Supreme Creator behind all creation, as acknowledged in the scriptures.

Vedic scriptures deal with both matter and spirit. It makes use of the empiric process, like science, as well as an additional tool not available in science - revealed knowledge! That is knowledge originating from the Supreme Lord Krishna and recorded in the Vedic texts. This knowledge has been historically transmitted through a chain of spiritual master-disciple succession till today.

The Vedas describe how the Lord created material nature and impregnates it with the living entities or souls, His eternally existing minute parts and parcels. How the pure spirit soul and its attribute of consciousness is covered by the material conditioning and transmigrates (reincarnation) through the species and planetary systems to enjoy or suffer the fruits of its actions and reactions (karma). Until it awakens to full (Krishna) consciousness and returns home, back to the spiritual realm. The Vedas even describe in some detail the spiritual world, where the Lord is eternally existing in His personal form with His devotees.

There is much scope here for science to study and research on the premise that there might a Spiritual Force behind Creation. As will be shown, Albert Einstein and many great scientists and thinkers not only believed in this premise, but even took the trouble to delve into the Vedic scriptures for further knowledge. Historically, the elite group of scientists and thinkers were never swayed by any conflict between science and religion. They saw more conciliation rather than conflict between science and the Vedic scriptures, as will be seen from their statements appended.

Vedic scriptures say that matter comes from life, not that life comes from matter (as some scientists say)

07MAY73 Los Angeles
Çréla Prabhupäda: The scientists say that life begins from chemicals. But the real question is, “Where have the chemicals come from?” The chemicals come from life, and this means that life has mystic powers. For example, an orange tree contains many oranges, and each orange contains chemicals-citric acid and others. So where have these chemicals come from? Obviously they have come from the life within the tree. The scientists are missing the origin of the chemicals. They have started their investigation from the chemicals, but they cannot identify the origin of the chemicals. Chemicals come from the supreme life-God. Just as the living body of a man produces many chemicals, the supreme life (the Supreme Lord) is producing all the chemicals found in the atmosphere, in the water, in humans, in animals and in the earth. And that is called mystic power. Unless the mystic power of the Lord is accepted, there is no solution to the problem of the origin of life.

Dr. Singh. The scientists will reply that they cannot believe in mystic power.

Çréla Prabhupäda: But they must explain the origin of the chemicals. Anyone can see that an ordinary tree is producing many chemicals. But how does it produce them? Since the scientists cannot answer this, they must accept that the living force has mystic power. I cannot even explain how my fingernail is growing out of my finger; it is beyond the power of my brain. In other words, my fingernail is growing by inconceivable potency, acintya-çakti. So if acintya-çakti exists in an ordinary human being, imagine how much acintya-çakti God possesses. The difference between God and me is that although I have the same potencies as God, I can produce only a small quantity of chemicals, whereas He can produce enormous quantities. I can produce a little water in the form of perspiration, but God can produce the seas. Analysis of one drop of seawater gives you the qualitative analysis of the sea, without any mistake. Similarly, the ordinary living being is part and parcel of God, so by analyzing the living beings we can begin to understand God. In God there is great mystic potency. God’s mystic potency is working swiftly, exactly like an electric machine. Some machines operate by electrical energy, and they are so nicely made that all the work is done simply by pushing a button. Similarly, God said, “Let there be creation,” and there was creation. Considered in this way, the workings of nature are not very difficult to understand. God has such wonderful potencies that the creation, on His order alone, immediately takes place.

Brahmänanda Swami. Some scientists don’t accept God or acintya-çakti.

Çréla Prabhupäda: God exists, and His acintya-çakti also exists. Where does a bird’s power to fly come from? Both you and the bird are living entities, but the bird can fly because of its acintya-çakti, and you cannot. To give another example, semen is produced from blood. A man has mystic power in his body so that because he is sexually inclined, blood is transformed into semen. How is this done unless there is some mystic power involved? There are many mystic powers in the living entities. The cow eats grass and produces milk. Everyone knows this, but can you take some grass and produce milk? Can you? Therefore there is mystic power within the cow. As soon as the cow eats grass, she can transform it into milk. Men and women are basically the same, but as a man you cannot eat food and produce milk, although a woman can. These are mystic powers.

Dr. Singh. Scientists would say that there are different enzymes or chemicals inside different types of bodies and that these account for the cow’s producing milk.

Çréla Prabhupäda. Yes, but who produced those enzymes and that arrangement? That was done by mystic power. You cannot make these enzymes or that arrangement. You cannot produce milk from dry grass in your laboratory. Within your body, by mystic power, you can transform food into blood and tissue, but in your laboratory, without mystic power, you cannot even transform grass into milk. Therefore you must accept the existence of mystic power.

14MAY73 Los Angeles
Çréla Prabhupäda. The scientists’ mistake is that they are ignorant of the two energies-material and spiritual. They say that everything is material and that everything emanates from matter. The defect in their theories is that they begin from matter instead of spirit. Since matter comes from spirit, in a sense everything is spiritual. Spiritual energy is the source and can exist without the material energy. But the material energy has no existence without the spiritual energy. It is correct to say that darkness begins from light, not that light begins from darkness. Scientists think that consciousness comes from matter. Actually, consciousness always exists, but when it is covered or degraded by ignorance, it is a form of unconsciousness. So “material” means forgetfulness of Kåñëa, and “spiritual” means full consciousness of Kåñëa. Is this clear? Try to understand: darkness comes from light. When no light is visible, then we are in darkness. Clouds are not to be found in the sun; that would be against the nature of the sun. But by the energy of the sun other things are temporarily created, such as mist, clouds or darkness. These creations are temporary, but the sun remains. Similarly, material nature is temporary, but spiritual nature is permanent. Kåñëa consciousness means getting out of this temporary nature and attaining a permanent, spiritual nature. No one actually wants this temporary nature; no one likes this cloudy atmosphere.

Dr. Singh. is this cloudy consciousness created from spiritual energy?

Çréla Prabhupäda. Yes.

Dr. Singh. And matter is also created from the superior energy?
Çréla Prabhupäda. Ahaà sarvasya prabhavo mattaù sarvaà pravartate. Kåñëa says, “I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me.” (Bhagavad-gita 8.10)
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We have no quarrel with the chemists if they begin from life, but unfortunately they say that everything begins from darkness-dead matter. That is what we object to. We say, “Begin from life,” and they say, “No, begin from matter-darkness.” The reason they are in darkness is simple: if one goes from darkness to light, he thinks that darkness is the beginning. Suppose you have been in darkness all your life, and now you suddenly come into the light. You will think, “Oh, light has come from darkness.” Actually, darkness occurs when light becomes dim. Darkness does not produce light.

Dr. Singh. Then darkness is dependent on light?

Çréla Prabhupäda. Yes. Or in other words, in the light there is no darkness. When the light is dim-then we experience darkness. Similarly, when our spiritual consciousness, or Kåñëa consciousness, is dim, our consciousness is material. In the morning we awaken, and at the end of the day we become tired and go to sleep. When life is somehow or other interrupted, we sleep. We sleep at night, and when we get up in the morning we understand that our wakefulness, or “life,” has not come into existence from the sleepy condition. I was alive even while I slept, and on awakening I am still alive. This should be clearly understood.

11MAY73 Los Angeles
Çréla Prabhupäda. Modern scientists think that life has come from matter. They say that millions and millions of years ago there was simply matter, but no life. We do not accept that. Of the two energies-life and matter-life, or spirit, is the original, superior energy, and matter is the resultant inferior energy.

Dr. Singh. Do they exist simultaneously?

Çréla Prabhupäda. Yes, but spirit is independent, and matter is dependent. For example, I can live even without my hands or legs. If they were amputated, I could survive. Therefore I am not dependent on my hands and legs; my hands and legs are dependent on me, the spirit soul within my body.

Dr. Singh. But do life and matter come simultaneously?
Çréla Prabhupäda. No. They do not “come” at all. They already exist. The “coming” idea is in our minds because we are living in this limited world, where we see that there is a beginning to everything. Therefore we think in terms of things “coming.” But actually matter and spirit already exist. When I am born, I think my birth is the beginning of the world. But the world already exists.
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Similarly, the eternal living entities have many different eternal desires. And all the varieties of species also exist eternally to fit these various eternal desires.
Dr. Singh. And the living entities are made to live in different bodies according to these desires?
Çréla Prabhupäda. Yes. For example, the government constructs a prison house because it knows there will be criminals. So when a criminal is tried and convicted, the prison already exists, even before the judgment period. Similarly, God is described as sarva-jïa, He who knows everything. Thus He knows that some living entities will become criminal and rebel against His service. Furthermore, He knows the various desires the living entities in the material world acquire according to the three modes of material nature. Therefore He creates all the species of life from the very beginning to accommodate all the conditioned souls.

Bhagavad-gita 14.4 upholds that life comes from life and that God (Krishna) is the ultimate seed-giving father:
“It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunti, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.”

Darwinism extinct?

Dr. Singh (scientist). Many scientists doubt Darwin’s theories. But Darwin’s supporters say that life started from matter and evolved from unicellular organisms to multicellular organisms. They believe that higher species like animals and men did not exist at the beginning of creation.

Çréla Prabhupäda. Darwin and his followers are rascals. If originally there were no higher species, why do they exist now? Also, why do the lower species still exist? For example, at the present moment we see both the intellectual person and the foolish ass. Why do both these entities exist simultaneously? Why hasn’t the ass form evolved upward and disappeared? Why do we never see a monkey giving birth to a human?

19APR73 Los Angeles
Dr TD Singh: Darwin has said that some species become extinct in the struggle for survival. Those which are capable of surviving will survive, but those which are not will become extinct. So he says survival and extinction go side by side.
Çréla Prabhupäda: Nothing is extinct. The monkey is not extinct. Darwin’s immediate forefather, the monkey, is still existing.

Darwin’s theory refuted by Bhagavad-gita 3.10:
“In the beginning of creation, the Lord of all creatures sent forth generations of men and demigods, along with sacrifices for Vishnu…”

With the permission of the Interfaith Talk Committee, STAD.

Prepared by:
Chandrasekaran s/o Sivasubamaniam
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